Here's to you, fandom suck!
Dec. 2nd, 2003 11:49 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kodalaiImagine, if you will, the following situation. You're back in your senior year of high school -- remember that stressful, horrible time? You're in the process of applying to colleges. Now, your parents want you -- by which I mean no objections -- to apply to a certain difficult, prestigious college. You, yourself, have no desire to go there. You don't like the school, the location, the programs it offers, any of it. In addition, the application process is particularly long and painful, involving not only applications and essays, but also a huge, grueling entrance exam which will require hours and hours of study preparation, on top of all the other tests, essays, paper, applications and homework you have to do.
Now, as you go up to the administration office to hand in your application, you get told -- surprise! -- that you will be unable to apply for entry. Either your grades disqualify you, or they don't allow people of your particular religious sect in, or some other equally degrading reason. However, this means you won't have to submit the application, take the test, and you have a good excuse for your parents why you don't want to go.
Take that particular mixture of humiliation, anger, and relief, deform it about a hundred ways, and you've got pretty much how I'm feeling now.
For those of you who don't know, I'll start from the beginning. A couple weeks (months?) ago, I joined a particular new list. The list was formed for writers of all fandoms, in order to give them a place where they could meet and discuss their craft, ask for help on troublesome stories, etc. Now, I thought this was a great idea. I thought such a list would be a huge help, and I wanted to assist its startup in any way I could. So, since I knew one of the girls starting it up -- an author whom I particularly like, referred to hereafter as LM1 -- I asked her if she perhaps wanted asssistance in moderating the list. I figured, since I was already co-modding the SDDI, I could offer that help.
What I hadn't counted on was the other co-mod, referred to hereafter as TB. I didn't know her at the time. The first time we talked, when she explained to me that she had 'a lot of enemies in the fandom,' alarm bells started to go off in my head. Not nearly enough, as it turned out.
Shall I say -- I think both subjectively and objectively -- this woman is A Bitch. I feel that I can say this objectively because while I was never the direct target of her ire -- yet -- I listened to enough rants and scathing diatribes directed at other people that there can be no doubt about it. She touts herself as being 'blunt,' and 'not willing to take bullshit,' but in all honesty, she's a bitch. She is quite certain that in certain matters, she is The Authority, especially on matters of what constitutes good writing, and should anyone disagree with her decision, they become the target of her wrath. I've lost track of how many people were referred to by her in conversations as 'that cow,' 'that dog,' 'that snivelling bitch,' etc.* (To say nothing of the fact that when I suggested inviting some writers I knew through LJ to the list, she dismissed them on the basis of "Okaasan? What a stupid pen name. She can't be a very good writer.")
In all honesty, I have no idea how it is that LM1 can remain friends with TB, especially since LM1 is also friends with -- or at least acts like she's friends with -- another girl whom TB is constantly insulting. "If she were my friend," TB says, "I'd be embarassed by her. I'm embarassed she's even in my fandom." Gee, do I know that feeling.
I can only speak for myself -- well, and a few other people who said pretty much exactly the same thing -- but I would *not* want to be on a list moderated by this woman. Because her neuroticism/bitchiness/whatever it is extends to list activity as well. On more than one occasion I have seen her projecting her hostile attitudes towards list members as well, coming down on them hard for what seemed to me to be perfectly innocent comments or actions.
And then -- this is what really made me the most hopping mad -- she has developed a system wherein she is notified any time someone unsubscribes from the list. And she sends them a notice wanting to know why they unsubscribed. If they can't provide a good enough reason -- and God only knows what she would consider a good enough reason -- then she rails against them as cowardly, stuck-up, or even actively maliciously trying to destroy the list. LM1 is getting into this attitude too. I don't know whether she held it from the start, or if TB's attitude rubbed off on her, but either way. It makes me furious.
Now, I am going to do what another girl did, and she got flames, angry emails, and even threats.** I am going to tell you not to join this list. Because as long as TB is a co-mod, it is not a good place to be. That is my opinion not only as a list member, but as a moderator.
Speaking of as-a-moderator. Recently, following the situation with said girl who got flames and angry e-mails,*** TB was wondering whether she should step down as moderator. I told her that I thought she should. I reminded her that stepping down once the list got established was what she said she'd do from the beginning, that she had a lot of enemies in more than one fandom (gee, wonder why) and that if she was going to come down on a rule infraction with nastiness and insults, maybe she didn't have the patience/temperment to be an admin. (I was much more diplomatic than this in my email, though I wonder if I ought to have bothered.)
And now, as it happens, I have been asked to step down as a mod.
I got an email to this effect from LM1 this morning. On the top layer of things, she says, it's because I am very busy lately, and haven't been doing very much in the way of helping on the list. Now, this is true, for a number of reasons which I will get into shortly. One reason is just that -- I am busy with school, writing, social life, etc. However, I also have not been as active on the list as I could have been, again, for a few reasons. One is that I can only check the list every other day or so, and by the time I get there, if there's any rule infractions, they've already been taken care of, so I do nothing. The other has more to do with the fact that I haven't been supporting the other admins through this latest crisis -- which I haven't, because frankly, I don't support them and I think they're wrong, so I have stayed out of it so as not to start an in-fight among moderators. I also have not been doing my part in increasing recruitment, because as stated above, at the moment I don't think this list is a good place to be and I can't in good conscience reccommend it to my friends.
So. That's the official reason, and it's quite true. However. I very much doubt it's the only reason.
For one thing, they didn't really ask me if I wanted to step down. They pretty much told me I was going to, and did so by citing reasons in my life which they have no way of knowing is true or not. For another, they didn't discuss this with me beforehand, but they have obviously discussed it with each other. Last I heard, TB was considering stepping down and worrying about who was going to replace her; however, all of a sudden it's "We two will be fine on our own; you go away now." When I asked LM1 if there was any secondary reason to ask me to step down, such as TB being upset with me, she said (come to think of it, she didn't say no, now did she?) that if that was the case, TB would surely have told me about it.
So. That's the saga. Now, what am I going to do about it, you ask?
Frankly? Nothing. I'm glad to be out of it. I have wanted to be out of it for some time, but I felt like I didn't dare either confront the other mod, or even declare that I was leaving, because I didn't want to start a flame war, and frankly, I don't want to become the target of TB's ire. I don't want to destroy the list, I don't want to force LM1 to choose between her and me, and above all, I don't want to deal with this headache any longer.
I offered to become a mod because I thought the list was a good idea. I still do. However, as long as TB is involved, I want nothing more to do with it. If I wanted to make the next move, it would probably be, as suggested to me by several others, to create a list of my own and run it the way I feel it should be run. However, I have a test tomorrow, and a paper due Friday. I'm not terribly motivated to bring down on myself the foreseen hassles of list-running, and the possible hassles of inviting list rivalry.
So. In conclusion? I'm gone. I won't unsub from the list, because I don't want to face an inquisition, but there's little difference between unsubbing and turning it to web-only and never going back there. I will urge all my friends to stay away from the list. And I will undoubtedly forget, soon enough, my bitterness at being involved in such a debacle.
*Direct quotes, btw.
**As it happened, when she posted an upset email about this in her LJ, TB e-mailed her and threatened to contact the LJ owners to report her for abuse. If you ask me, it's not a particularly moving threat, because a) people do much more outlandish things (both ethically and legally) than ranting about a yahoogroup and don't get in trouble for it, and b) it's not slander if it's true.
***Which is, btw, the reason this post is locked. I pretty much trust you guys not to copy-paste this elsewhere. Call me nothing but not a slow learner.
Now, as you go up to the administration office to hand in your application, you get told -- surprise! -- that you will be unable to apply for entry. Either your grades disqualify you, or they don't allow people of your particular religious sect in, or some other equally degrading reason. However, this means you won't have to submit the application, take the test, and you have a good excuse for your parents why you don't want to go.
Take that particular mixture of humiliation, anger, and relief, deform it about a hundred ways, and you've got pretty much how I'm feeling now.
For those of you who don't know, I'll start from the beginning. A couple weeks (months?) ago, I joined a particular new list. The list was formed for writers of all fandoms, in order to give them a place where they could meet and discuss their craft, ask for help on troublesome stories, etc. Now, I thought this was a great idea. I thought such a list would be a huge help, and I wanted to assist its startup in any way I could. So, since I knew one of the girls starting it up -- an author whom I particularly like, referred to hereafter as LM1 -- I asked her if she perhaps wanted asssistance in moderating the list. I figured, since I was already co-modding the SDDI, I could offer that help.
What I hadn't counted on was the other co-mod, referred to hereafter as TB. I didn't know her at the time. The first time we talked, when she explained to me that she had 'a lot of enemies in the fandom,' alarm bells started to go off in my head. Not nearly enough, as it turned out.
Shall I say -- I think both subjectively and objectively -- this woman is A Bitch. I feel that I can say this objectively because while I was never the direct target of her ire -- yet -- I listened to enough rants and scathing diatribes directed at other people that there can be no doubt about it. She touts herself as being 'blunt,' and 'not willing to take bullshit,' but in all honesty, she's a bitch. She is quite certain that in certain matters, she is The Authority, especially on matters of what constitutes good writing, and should anyone disagree with her decision, they become the target of her wrath. I've lost track of how many people were referred to by her in conversations as 'that cow,' 'that dog,' 'that snivelling bitch,' etc.* (To say nothing of the fact that when I suggested inviting some writers I knew through LJ to the list, she dismissed them on the basis of "Okaasan? What a stupid pen name. She can't be a very good writer.")
In all honesty, I have no idea how it is that LM1 can remain friends with TB, especially since LM1 is also friends with -- or at least acts like she's friends with -- another girl whom TB is constantly insulting. "If she were my friend," TB says, "I'd be embarassed by her. I'm embarassed she's even in my fandom." Gee, do I know that feeling.
I can only speak for myself -- well, and a few other people who said pretty much exactly the same thing -- but I would *not* want to be on a list moderated by this woman. Because her neuroticism/bitchiness/whatever it is extends to list activity as well. On more than one occasion I have seen her projecting her hostile attitudes towards list members as well, coming down on them hard for what seemed to me to be perfectly innocent comments or actions.
And then -- this is what really made me the most hopping mad -- she has developed a system wherein she is notified any time someone unsubscribes from the list. And she sends them a notice wanting to know why they unsubscribed. If they can't provide a good enough reason -- and God only knows what she would consider a good enough reason -- then she rails against them as cowardly, stuck-up, or even actively maliciously trying to destroy the list. LM1 is getting into this attitude too. I don't know whether she held it from the start, or if TB's attitude rubbed off on her, but either way. It makes me furious.
Now, I am going to do what another girl did, and she got flames, angry emails, and even threats.** I am going to tell you not to join this list. Because as long as TB is a co-mod, it is not a good place to be. That is my opinion not only as a list member, but as a moderator.
Speaking of as-a-moderator. Recently, following the situation with said girl who got flames and angry e-mails,*** TB was wondering whether she should step down as moderator. I told her that I thought she should. I reminded her that stepping down once the list got established was what she said she'd do from the beginning, that she had a lot of enemies in more than one fandom (gee, wonder why) and that if she was going to come down on a rule infraction with nastiness and insults, maybe she didn't have the patience/temperment to be an admin. (I was much more diplomatic than this in my email, though I wonder if I ought to have bothered.)
And now, as it happens, I have been asked to step down as a mod.
I got an email to this effect from LM1 this morning. On the top layer of things, she says, it's because I am very busy lately, and haven't been doing very much in the way of helping on the list. Now, this is true, for a number of reasons which I will get into shortly. One reason is just that -- I am busy with school, writing, social life, etc. However, I also have not been as active on the list as I could have been, again, for a few reasons. One is that I can only check the list every other day or so, and by the time I get there, if there's any rule infractions, they've already been taken care of, so I do nothing. The other has more to do with the fact that I haven't been supporting the other admins through this latest crisis -- which I haven't, because frankly, I don't support them and I think they're wrong, so I have stayed out of it so as not to start an in-fight among moderators. I also have not been doing my part in increasing recruitment, because as stated above, at the moment I don't think this list is a good place to be and I can't in good conscience reccommend it to my friends.
So. That's the official reason, and it's quite true. However. I very much doubt it's the only reason.
For one thing, they didn't really ask me if I wanted to step down. They pretty much told me I was going to, and did so by citing reasons in my life which they have no way of knowing is true or not. For another, they didn't discuss this with me beforehand, but they have obviously discussed it with each other. Last I heard, TB was considering stepping down and worrying about who was going to replace her; however, all of a sudden it's "We two will be fine on our own; you go away now." When I asked LM1 if there was any secondary reason to ask me to step down, such as TB being upset with me, she said (come to think of it, she didn't say no, now did she?) that if that was the case, TB would surely have told me about it.
So. That's the saga. Now, what am I going to do about it, you ask?
Frankly? Nothing. I'm glad to be out of it. I have wanted to be out of it for some time, but I felt like I didn't dare either confront the other mod, or even declare that I was leaving, because I didn't want to start a flame war, and frankly, I don't want to become the target of TB's ire. I don't want to destroy the list, I don't want to force LM1 to choose between her and me, and above all, I don't want to deal with this headache any longer.
I offered to become a mod because I thought the list was a good idea. I still do. However, as long as TB is involved, I want nothing more to do with it. If I wanted to make the next move, it would probably be, as suggested to me by several others, to create a list of my own and run it the way I feel it should be run. However, I have a test tomorrow, and a paper due Friday. I'm not terribly motivated to bring down on myself the foreseen hassles of list-running, and the possible hassles of inviting list rivalry.
So. In conclusion? I'm gone. I won't unsub from the list, because I don't want to face an inquisition, but there's little difference between unsubbing and turning it to web-only and never going back there. I will urge all my friends to stay away from the list. And I will undoubtedly forget, soon enough, my bitterness at being involved in such a debacle.
*Direct quotes, btw.
**As it happened, when she posted an upset email about this in her LJ, TB e-mailed her and threatened to contact the LJ owners to report her for abuse. If you ask me, it's not a particularly moving threat, because a) people do much more outlandish things (both ethically and legally) than ranting about a yahoogroup and don't get in trouble for it, and b) it's not slander if it's true.
***Which is, btw, the reason this post is locked. I pretty much trust you guys not to copy-paste this elsewhere. Call me nothing but not a slow learner.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:04 pm (UTC)At least she won't stalk you online anymore.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:05 pm (UTC)And if you think the list is a good idea--start your own. ~_^
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 03:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 12:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 02:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 01:35 pm (UTC)I think you did the right thing... just quietly pack your bags and get out of town! This whole fanfiction thing is supposed to be for fun for God's sake! O.o;;
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 02:53 pm (UTC)Yeah -- no kidding. XP It's people like TB who can really suck the joy out of fandom.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 03:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-03 02:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 04:11 pm (UTC)Boy do I know that feeling. I heartily applaud your decision.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 06:31 pm (UTC)i can understand not wanting to sign off from the list to avoid harrassment. however, if you do decide to leave the plague behind, advise that you don't have to justify why you've left; hell, you can offer the same reasons they have - too busy, school, writing, social life - and you had to curb some activities. their little inquisition tactic reminds me of a cult in a way. browbeat your followers into providing satisfactory justification for departure and eventually (in theory), they simply won't anymore. this TB was an abused child, wasn't she? poor thing, i bet she got picked last for kickball too... i'd join just so i could quit XD
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 07:20 pm (UTC)>_>
I don't know if you want to face the inquisition. When I got that email asking about why I left the list, it scared the piss out of me. It was polite... but it had that "Big Brother is watching you" feeling.
no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 07:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-12-02 11:11 pm (UTC)i'm glad you dig Hellsing XD XD i lust to write for that series, i love it so XD Alucard's voice is just so <3. and the animation is just so *_* yep. and... vampires! :D
no subject
Date: 2003-12-03 11:40 am (UTC)